An interview with Nadia Lee Cohen on her new book “Women” PIRATED EDITION.
The cult followed photographer talks all things personas, polaroids, and palace costume rental.
Can you tell me why you wanted to create this new version of Women?
You know those bootleg Japanese versions of Western books? I love them so much. More often than not I think they’re actually much better than the original book - especially in terms of graphics; and if you want to know any obscure details. I basically felt motivated to bootleg my own book. Women took six or seven years to complete and I started it on my first trip out to LA, so there’s a lot of nostalgia in relation to that project. I kept a lot of lists, receipts, props and stupid small things or in jokes relevant to it. It felt like the right thing to do to put them all in one place and essentially put a big line underneath it. Also, there’s a strong possibility I'm just milking it.
Your other books have been visually very clean and sophisticated before, a bit less scrapbook-y. What drew you to working in this style? Do you prefer it?
I actually think I do prefer it. It’s definitely quicker, more childlike, in the sense of gathering and keeping things. I'm glad I did keep a lot of that shit otherwise it wouldn't have made for a very interesting book. Ava Villafane helped organise this big pile of stuff and spent hours with a huge scanner so we could digitise it all. I think there's definitely something important to me about my collecting having some sort of ‘purpose’. Same with the name tags in HMNI, they eventually became a book rather than just a hoarders collection. For this book it's more a diary of my experience of coming to America and starting Women. That project played an essential part of whatever I am now.
A lot of the people you photograph and work with are your friends. Do you like to look within your own circle for inspiration and collaboration?
I like being around the people I love, so why not work with them too. One of my best friends is Charlie, who did the graphic design for this book. He’s such a talented artist, one of the most inspirational people to speak to and bounce ideas off. Most of my close friends are artistic, creative people whose taste I really trust. I can be annoying to them when trying to make decisions about almost anything, I'll text them and be like; ‘is it this photo or that photo?’ But I guess it’s a compliment - if I didn’t think they had great taste then I wouldn’t ask.
And one of your friends, Rachel, goes by Dreamgirl as a persona. Would you say you're drawn to people who have these alter egos or strong personas, and if so, why?
I’ve thought about this and reckon you could draw all the people closest to me as caricatures. Most have pretty strong looks, that's something I'm definitely drawn to in a person.
When it comes to finding models, you often use your friends, but you also, in the case of Carole, found them through online ads. When did you start to do this?
I learned about it on one of my first trips to LA but didn’t understand how to use it. I love it as you get this really diverse pool of people replying. It can be surprising, because suddenly I'm thinking, oh that person actually works so much better than who I originally thought I needed. I also love their enthusiasm and lack of ego. The people who apply are usually retired, have a different day job or do this full time. In Carole’s case she was retired and used the casting website in order to get out of the house and have different experiences. I think she said she was once in a sex scene with Barbara Streisand…not many people can say that. It’s so cool to get to that age and be able to have strange, unique experiences. Beats being in an old people’s home anyway.
What was Carole like when you met her?
Like a wind up doll. Or Graham Norton on crack. A constantly chatting redhead. She would not stop talking, in pure excitement and joy to be on set. I love that kind of attitude. That was the first time I worked with her. The second was when she was life-cast for the Deitch sculpture. She hadn’t left the house in 2 years because of covid. Next thing she knew she was laid out naked on a stranger's sofa covered in wet clay.
And why was it her body you decided to use for the mould?
Well the person in the sculpture had to be lying down. Carole’s body falls in this incredibly unique, beautiful way and I thought that was the right kind of silhouette to immortalise. Plus she’s very representative of LA to me.
This book is a pirated edition of Women, but it also has references to the exhibition, and a lot of films you've done, and even HMNI. Was it tough to fit so much of your work in?
No, actually it was easy and quite fast. I kind of knew what I'd want to include based on what I felt I would be interested in seeing in other people’s work. I love knowing unusual, often private details about a person or a project. Polaroids, behind the scenes, other angles, notes, scandal etc. I think that’s also loosely why I connect more to pop art than abstract art, I have this need to be reminded of something I’ve seen before.
Tell me about the story of the amateur glamour photos in the book and where they came from.
My brother noticed a cardboard box on the pavement in our local hometown. It was stuffed to the brim with these amateur glamour prints from what I assume (from the hairstyles) to be the late 80’s / early 90’s. There must be about 150 photos of these women in various poses and states of undress, all shot against the brown interior of a typical semi-detached British house. There’s a woman in a purple top and the most interesting thing about her is that there’s only one photo. I imagine she arrived, the photographer asked her to take her knickers off and she thought ‘fuck this i’m leaving’!
To me the visitor's guide and map of L.A. is a bit reminiscent of a map in a story, you know when you read a fictional book it sometimes has a map at the beginning? Is there something about L.A which lends itself to fictionalisation?
That's a lovely way of putting it. L.A. definitely feels fictional, or a novelty like you're in a video game, or everyone is acting. There's a monotony to it, every day, same weather, same traffic, it's really expectant. You have to seek out your friends, and generally every situation is planned, so there’s little to no spontaneity. Which I guess lends itself to the city feeling like a movie as your own life has to be scripted if anything unexpected is to happen. That being said, once you are out and about the weirdest things can happen; that probably makes no sense, but somehow it does to me.
The breeze block patterns in the book interested me because you said you're really drawn to them. What is it about them?
I’ve never analysed it but I think it's what it represents. It's Slim Aarons, Palm Springs glamour but it’s also a porn set in the early 90s - filmed cheaply around those Californian family homes. It’s also the fact that you can partially see through it, yet it’s still considered a ‘wall’ - there’s something voyeuristic and sinister about that. I don't know, I just love Breezeblock.
And I never really knew about the practices of bribing locations in L.A. to use them for shoots. Have you ever had to shoot on a location in secret?
Yes. There's a really expensive Disney backlot. I think it's about $10,000 a day. I knew that you can look around it on a ‘location scout’ for free. So, I drove up there with my friend with a change of clothes in the car boot pretending we were scouting. They leave you alone after around 10 minutes as it’s so hot out there; so we waved the clerk goodbye, he sped away in his little golf cart back to the air conditioned office and we successfully carried out the shoot.
Tell me about where you get your costumes from, and why you've included so much about costumes in the book. You get them from Palace costume rental right?
Yes. Palace is very sentimental for me. When I first came to LA, I had heard it’s the best place for costume; but I also heard it’s nearly impossible to get in. I tried anyway one day, and was successful - Selma Hayek was in front of me and got turned away for being ‘talent’ - I met Lee, infamous for his no bullshit approach to running the store. People are legitimately terrified of him. We bonded over stupid things like sharing the same star sign or my middle name being ‘Lee’. I’d visit Palace regularly when pulling clothes for Women. We always chatted and this just naturally turned into a very special friendship. He’s one of my friends I could caricature, hence the caricature of him in the book. We go for dinner or to the movies and he’ll judge the placement of a zip in a period piece. Or I'll go to his house, drink wine out of a silver goblet with his big slobbery British Bulldogs ‘Lee’ and ‘Nadia’ - one he named after himself and one after me, maybe my proudest acclaim. Today we're going to watch Love Lies Bleeding and then after we’ll get sushi and bitch about the zips.
