Lola Leon in conversation with Julia Fox about music, intimacy and how they both see home as a rule of nature.
Lola Leon takes time out from her nascent music career for a boudoir-themed shoot and an intimate conversation with her friend and fellow New Yorker, Julia Fox.
‘I can’t wait to go to the retirement home,’ Julia Fox tells Lola Leon via Zoom, after the pair discuss their shared tendency to procrastinate. ‘I just want to take ecstasy and do drugs for the rest of my time at the retirement centre.’ There’s a familiarity between the two New Yorkers that runs deeper than just shared geography – the hushed names of previous boyfriends, the shared nightlife memories, and the ultimate friendship gauge: Julia knows Lola’s mum. Not in the way that you and I know Lola’s mom, Madonna; Julia has made it into the Queen of Pop’s phone book. ‘I remember your mom once called me and she was like, “I’m worried about Lola.” I said: “Other people have to be worried. You do not have to worry about Lola.”’
Throughout their interview for Perfect, Julia assumes the role of older sister – not patronising or controlling, she just gets what it’s like to be a 27-year-old girl in New York City. ‘You have such a solid head on your shoulders,’ she tells Lola, who confides that she too once dreamt of being an actor before finding her love of dance and music.
Now, Lola is more interested in following in her mother’s footsteps. Using the moniker Lolahol, Madonna’s firstborn began releasing music in August 2022, with her most recent music video ‘Spelling’ playing homage to Madonna’s 1998 song ‘Frozen’ (made popular to the TikTok generation in 2021 via a remix by Sickick featuring Fireboy DML). ‘Were you at any point nervous that people would immediately start to draw comparisons between you and your mom?’ Julia will ask later in the conversation. ‘Because I’m sure you've kind of been living with your mother's fame looming over you all the time.’
Here, the two discuss family frustrations, nepotism, LA vs New York and Julia’s plea to become Lola’s video vixen.
Julia Fox I have a question. You once famously said that...
Lola Leon Oh God, I’m SCARED!
JF No, it’s a good one, and I’m asking because I genuinely want to take notes for myself. You once famously said that your mom saw how all the other kids who benefitted from nepotism were, and she was like, ‘No, I’m not going to do that with my daughter.’ And I feel like you are so different from them. What is it that she did that made you the way you are? Because I would hate if [Julia’s child] Valentino turned into a useless, arrogant… you know what I mean?
LL That for sure will not happen. I don’t want to sound like an asshole, but I think it’s her character and her true artist self and her really wanting me to understand art and working hard. I don’t know, she obviously is from humble beginnings, but she really made everything happen for herself. I mean, she didn’t have anything, so it's not like generations and generations of wealth. I think also anything we wanted we had to work for. And the things that we wanted were like piano lessons, you know what I mean? We didn't want, like, cars. You went to [her] show, right?
JF Yeah. It was honestly the best night of my fucking life.
LL Wasn't it so emotional?
JF I cried from beginning to end.
LL All my siblings that are in the show. They’re not up there performing because they want some sort of clout, they’re up there to be channel art and light and creativity and to perform, and I think that that’s maybe the message. Also, my mom never really had that many famous people around all the time. Really, the people that she surrounded herself with were just like...
JF Her homies, her actual friends.
LL Yeah, and her artist friends, and artists that she would meet randomly or, I don’t know, it would just be musicians and stuff like that. It wouldn’t be like, ‘Elon Musk is coming to dinner.’
JF I’m the same way. I’ve been friends with the same people since middle school and I always feel so weird because people will be like, ‘You know, you and all your celebrity friends,’ and I’m like, ‘Yeah, of course, duh, yeah, totally,’ but really I’m like, ‘Ew that’s just so not who I am.’ So about a year ago, you decided that you were going to focus on music. Were you at any point nervous that people would immediately start to draw comparisons between you and your mom? Because I'm sure you’ve been living with your mother’s fame looming over you all the time.
LL I think immediately I was. It was something that was keeping me back from doing it. But once I started the work, and I started working with Eartheater, I just felt like what I was saying was so true and so real and I wasn’t trying to put on any airs or do anything other than be a vessel for art – that was really what I felt like I was doing, and what I still want to do. I actually kind of shocked myself because I didn’t think that I was capable of it. It was a moment for me where I felt very proud of myself – and even that’s hard for me to say, because I don’t really say that a lot – but it was a new feeling for me. Ever since, I have just been sure that I’m doing the right thing.
JF It's fucking happening, bitch! I’ve been listening to your song ‘Spelling’ a lot recently and it’s so fucking good.
LL Thank you.
JF Did you sample ‘Frozen’?
LL No, we didn't sample it. But I love ‘Frozen’, I’ve always been obsessed with it. It’s got one of the most incredible videos I’ve ever seen. Her energy in that video is something that has had me in a chokehold since I was young. Also I think because of the dark hair and that we kind of look like each other.
JF I love your mom with dark hair.
LL Yeah, I wish she would go back sometimes.
JF I know, she looks like a real Italian beauty. That must have been so fucking crazy for you to watch ‘Frozen’ as a small child and realise that it’s your mom.
LL Well, I don’t think the depth of it and the artistry set in until I was maybe in my late teens, and then I started to really understand and appreciate it. ’Cause I was just like, you know, ‘Oh, mom’s on TV.’ But as I got older things kind of clicked and I grew this intense, deep admiration and respect for her. And that’s the whole idea: I didn’t sample any of the music from ‘Frozen’ [on ‘Spelling’, but it] very much drew inspiration from it in a very obvious way.
JF Was your mom so touched by that?
LL Who knows…? (Laughs)
JF I feel like your mom just wants your love more than anything in the world. My favourite memory…
LL Oh God!
JF …I think it was like two summers ago – was going to dinner with your mom at Carbone and then someone told me that you were at Lucien and I was like, ‘Let’s go see Lola! Let’s go see Lola,’ and I thought it was going to be this happy family reunion.
LL Oh my God, I was so angry.
JF And you ran away from us! Yelled at me. Yelled at her. We were all outside Lucien, you guys are fighting and I’m just standing there in the argument. I was like, this must be the best day of my fucking life, I cannot believe this is happening.
LL No, honestly, looking back it was very cute, it just caught me so off guard.
JF And I feel like she’s really obsessed with you. Like, she wants to know what you're doing, you know? She’s such a mom with you and it’s actually the best, because I didn’t grow up with a mom like that. So just being in that interaction with you guys made me feel like, damn, I wish I had a mom that loves me this much!
LL I should have been more welcoming...
JF No, I get it. Now, in hindsight, I would definitely not want my parents showing up when I’m out with my fucking friends, like ew, cringe. My worst nightmare. So I totally get it. But that was just so funny to me. Ugh, I love you guys. Do you have a boyfriend, by the way?
LL No! (Laughs)
JF Do you remember when we met?
LL I don't remember like the exact-
JF I can tell you! We met through he who shall not be named.
LL Oh my God, he introduced us!
JF Yeah! At this hotel bar.
LL Wait, I think I told him to invite you!
JF You had this air about you: you were commanding the space. You’re just innately such a boss. You're not bossy, you are a boss. You have such a power. I remember your mom once called me and she was like, ‘I'm worried about Lola, blah blah blah,’ and I was like, ‘Other people have to be worried. You do not have to worry about Lola. She's gonna be so great.’ Not that I don’t worry about you, obviously, we all worry and whatever, but I just feel like you have such a solid head on your shoulders.
LL Thanks, I appreciate that. But I feel like I attribute that definitely to my mom instilling individuality.
JF Yeah, for sure. She’s like that, too. You guys are actually really similar in personality. Do you see that?
LL (Laughs) No, I totally see it. I mean, it’s only natural. Yeah, I feel like it’s something that you inherit from your mom as like a firstborn daughter. Are you a firstborn daughter?
JF Yeah, I am.
LL I mean, you have a different relationship with your mom.
JF Yeah, like I’ve never heard her fart. Do you know what I mean?
LL I’m sure you have a lot of similar character traits to your dad, though?
JF Oh I do, yeah: the mania and the psychosis.
LL But probably the funniness too?
JL For sure, yeah. My dad definitely has a sense of humour, but he’s like crazy. He eats food out of the garbage can on the street. He’s a freegan!
LL Oh, he’s like a forager?
JL Yeah. He’s a really bad hoarder, and then he’ll come to my house when I’m not there and put all his hoarding things away that he can’t get rid of. And later I'll be spring-cleaning and I’m like, what the fuck is all this shit? It drives me crazy. That’s a big one in my family – we have a lot of hoarders. Anyway, back to you. What else are you working on right now? Are you going to put out more music? Can we expect an album?
LL I have music coming out. I was thinking it would be an EP but I think I could make an album with everything that is cooking.
JL Are you going to do any features with Eartheater?
LL We need to.
JL I know. You guys kind of need it. I feel like the people want it.
LL Yeah, I know, it’s crazy. She’s doing her tour right now so it definitely wouldn’t be able to happen until next year. But I think we’re both like, oh my God, this has to be so amazing.
JF Oh my God, you guys have to do one of those film videos, like a narrative kind of film but the song is the story. Do you know what I mean?
LL Like Beyoncé, ‘Telephone?’
JF Like ‘Lemonade’! We need that from you guys, and I want to be in the video! It doesn’t have to be about me but I want to be in it. It’s gonna be like history in the making, so I need to be a part of it – and I love Eartheater too, she’s so cool. Is that your bestie?
LL She’s someone who I became really close to. Like you and I said, I have my day ones in New York who I’ve been hanging out with since I was 16 and I’m still hanging out with. But she’s someone who I met through art, art really brought us together, so we have a friendship. I never really had a very, very close friendship that’s related to art and it’s really special and cool and different. Yeah, I love her so much. She’s been such a good mentor to me.
JL Another question I have is, what do you hope to accomplish in life? When you’re remembered in the history books, what do you want people to say about you?
LL She was… chill.
JF She was chill? (Laughs) Aside from music, do you think you would pursue any other artistic paths? ’Cause you’re a dancer too, right?
LL I mean, yeah, but I haven't seriously got my ass to work in the studio or taken consistent classes in like… basically since I started making music.
JF You should get a pole in your house.
LL I should get a pole, but also I miss being in a class, and I miss going to my classical contemporary classes.
JF You should do it, babe!
LL I know, but also I just want to be able to incorporate dance more heavily into the music and not make a fool of myself, you know what I mean? So I need to be trained and my body has to be right. (Laughs)
JF Well, you have an amazing body. OK I have a more generic question. What are some of your fondest childhood memories in New York?
LL My abuela [dad's mother] – she’s still alive and lives uptown, I’m going to see her on Thursday for Thanksgiving. Her and my grandpa have been together for 62 years and they’ve definitely had an insane, crazy, relationship of psychotic-ness, but I remember when I was a kid and I would be with my cousins, and my abuela would take us to the sprinkler park on 95th Street and Broadway or something, and she used to order Domino’s pizza to the park.
Iconic behaviour.
LL And it just didn’t get better than that. It was hot and we were eight years old and the pizza was coming to the park! Like, how did they do that?! (Laughs) And my dad was always there and we always had so much fun.
JF Are you still really close with your dad?
LL Yeah, really close.
JF So I get this too now: people who want to get close to you because, ultimately, they just want something from you. Clout-chaser people. I’m sure you've had to deal with that your whole life. How are you able to identify who those people are?
LL I can’t even explain this, I feel like it’s so embedded in my brain and body – it’s like a power I have now. I genuinely can feel it in the first 60 seconds of talking to someone: vibes, body language, what they say, how they say it, how they’re looking at you. Especially in New York, you’re already given this bullshit radar, so then on top of that it’s really an acute thing that I’ve developed. I’m grateful for it, but it also can kind of make me seem like a bitch sometimes.
JF It's a defence mechanism. I get it now, but I can’t even imagine being six years old and having a mom in the park forcing their kid onto me.
LL I feel like I’ve got such a solid foundation of people who have my back in the city that I’m not worried. I know I’m good. I feel solid, you know?
JF That's the vibe that I get from you, too. You’re really solid, and you’re really thorough, and you’re really a New York bitch. I feel like in New York we’re known for being loud and out there, but we kind of have to be. We’re in a city that’s literally on top of us. We’ll get trampled on and we have to stand our ground and not just fade away and get rolled over.
LL I made friends with a group of some really cool people from LA, and they started coming to New York, and all my friends love them and they come here regularly. But they were telling me that it took a good few times to get used to going to someone’s house and having to readjust to the level of socialising that goes on in New York. Everyone’s talking over each other, everyone wants to be the funniest, everyone wants to say the best joke, and I get that it can be exhausting maybe. (Laughs)
JF It's so fucking true. You just have to, though.
LL And you'll eventually get it! You eventually get into the swing of things.
JF Totally, but that's what makes it fun. Everyone’s really coming with their fucking A game. There’s no room for failure here. There’s more room for mediocrity in LA.
LL And error.
JL True. Whereas here, you have to be on point.
LL But I do feel like I’ve gone [to LA] certain times and discovered something musically that I feel like if I tried here I would be judged for. Sometimes, I feel like LA is a lot less judgemental – which is why there’s a lot of mediocrity that comes out of there, but it’s sometimes conducive to trying new things. I don’t know.
JL Totally! Absolutely. There’s no pressure there. Whereas here, you’re like…
LL ‘Is that corny? Is that corny?! Is that corny?!’ (Laughs)
I think we have a couple seconds remaining. I just wanted to say, I love you. Thank you so much. You’re the best.
LL Love you! Thank you so much, I had so much fun.
